Here's what I do...

1) Turn the key on and allow all the relays, etc. to get set.

2) Crank the motor for a few seconds then let off.

3) Turn the key all the way off and let sit for a few seconds.

4 ) Repeat step one then two.

Mine usually starts right up if I do this. If I don't, I could crank it until the battery were dead and it wouldn't ever start. This is on a '22 with less than 1,100mi. It has done this since new.

Someone else told me it was the neoprene seals used in the fuel rail.

A dealership I called had no idea about the problem and didn't know where they'd start in recommending a fix.

Using this procedure I was able to start mine yesterday after a very cold morning. The engine temp on the display read 7 degrees and it started right up.



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Here's what I do...

1) Turn the key on and allow all the relays, etc. to get set.

2) Crank the motor for a few seconds then let off.

3) Turn the key all the way off and let sit for a few seconds.

4 ) Repeat step one then two.

Mine usually starts right up if I do this. If I don't, I could crank it until the battery were dead and it wouldn't ever start. This is on a '22 with less than 1,100mi. It has done this since new.

Someone else told me it was the neoprene seals used in the fuel rail.

A dealership I called had no idea about the problem and didn't know where they'd start in recommending a fix.

Using this procedure I was able to start mine yesterday after a very cold morning. The engine temp on the display read 7 degrees and it started right up.



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You have something wrong. What it is IDK. But my 22 started this morning at temps around zero. Hit the key for maybe 3 seconds and it fired right up. Just like a summer morning

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@MKP
I would definitely get the valves set on it. That would be a good start.

 

I would second the valve adjustment. Maybe a leak down test before that to confirm if it needs to be done....

Also I font remember if you stated it. But what fuel are you running? High octane doesn't work with a general in cold temps. I personally blend 87 (3 gal) with 91 (7 gal). I run 91 only because it's ethanol free, I hate that crap

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I use 87. Papermaker advised me on that.
OK I'll try what Kinekilla said but I also am looking at a shop about 35 minutes away that is a Polaris dealership to see if they'll check and if necessary adjust the valves.

 

Also, what I've noticed is, when it does come down to an idle, it does an initial momentary stumble with the idle. If it survives that, it remains idling. When its heated up, it idles and starts fine.
When its cold it has a hard time surviving that stumble. Once I get it going, I bring it up to around 2000 rpm and then with all the finesse I can muster, I let it down to idle. If I do it gently enough, it will survive the stumble and keep idling.

 

2018 General here. My General was taking about 10 seconds of cranking to start. Unreasonable. My riding partner (a long-time mechanic) told me that any time his machine is not started for more than a few days, he turns the key on for about 10 seconds (without turning the engine over), turns it off, then starts it like normal. He says that some fuel injected engines will lose fuel pressure on the fuel rails, and it takes a lot of cranking before it pressurizes the rails enough for the injectors to squirt gas into the cylinders. It works for me. Not sure whether that's all correct or not, but it works.

 

Does yours die after starting?
Mine does if I don't finesse the idle with very light pressure on the gas.
When its cold, I can get it to start but it just won't stay started until it gets warm.

 

Change plugs lately?

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I changed them last year.
How often should I?

 

Is there a place to plug in a code reader on these? (Is it the same plug as the ones on normal passenger cars)?

Thanks for any information!

Mike

There is a port under the hood that they connect the Polaris digital wrench to, so they can read the ECU. You can get an adapter that converts the digital wrench connector to an ODB2 connector. It can then be read by any ODB2 reader.

I have one like this: OBD2 To 8 Pin Diagnostic Adapter for Polaris ATV Slingshot | eBay

It works on my General and our Indian motorcycles.

 

This I'm buying right away!

 

Have you checked your fuel pressure?
It should be 58# + or - 2#.
If you need a fuel pump order from here. These are darn good pumps!

Quantum Fuel Systems 4476 Dupont Ct Ste A Ventura, California 93003 18185743835 http://www.highflowfuel.com

 

I've done a post on this...but didn't add it to my favorites...
With engine cold, bed up, and someone else to turn the key.

But, like a compression test, have person #2 turn the cold engine over half a dozen times or so.
With you having an ear right down by the valve cover and listening. If you hear air moving, sort of like a breeze to wind blowing...
it's a pretty good indication that the cylinders are leaking down.
Did this on my 2016 General at about 9800 miles. Yup, I could clearly hear the wind blowing. So not wanting to tear into the machine myself...at 67 years of age, etc.
I took mine to Terry Gilomen at Gilomen Innovations. He had all the parts on hand to to a top end, so all was ready.

As it turned out, the valve guides were badly worn. To the point the valves were not seating properly and air was leaking past and poor compression and danged hard to start!
But after I did get it started...after perhaps ten tries. You know, turn the key and a cylinder pops and you think it's going to start and doesn't. Or you crank it over enough to think
you better stop for a minute.
But then it does start. After is idle for a minute or two, you can shut the engine off, and it will restart on the first try. It will restart on the first try all day long...until it sits overnight and
gets cold...and you start all over.

I have come to see that this happens due to the aluminum cylinder head. The guides are badly worn. The valves are sloppy in the guides. As you are going through the ten try starting
process, each time a cylinder fires...you are putting head into that aluminum cylinder head. Gradually you get enough to swell the aluminum, the swelling shrinks the aluminum around the
valve guides to the point it holds the valve in place and the valve seals against the valve seat in the head. As soon as you get some coolant temp, the cylinder head has expanded and will
stay that way until the engine is fully cold...overnight.

For mine, it wound up taking a new cylinder head with all the components. Did not require any changes to the, what are they, boots for valve adjustment.
That was last November. She's started on the first try every time since. Even after sitting for months after the transmission committed suicide.

I'll bet that's your issue. Some say it should last a lot longer...but look at the rpm these engines are turning when we're out on the trail.
Pirate

 

I had no idea when I bought this, the motor would only last 10k miles.
A new cylinder head sounds very expensive.

 

I think it's worth noting that Pirate has done more things than most guys to get his general to run cooler. If memory serves me correctly he was around 175* (correct me if I'm wrong pirate). I believe that's too cool and could be part of why his top end wore out quickly. There's also lots of other factors to wearing out motors, but that's a different topic...

There's plenty of guys that go past 10k miles without issues, I think part of that is luck...

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No, a new bare head is about $800 or so.
The complete top end with new everything including piston rings (cylinders still had most of the finish honing cross hatch pattern present)
Including labor was $2300.
So not that bad, but not cheap either.
And I'm not sure that 10K miles isn't about right. The Prostar motor is not like today's automotive engines that will go 200K miles without being touched. If you notice, a lot of them are turning 2100 rpm at 75mph. We're turning 7000 rpm at 55mph.
Pirate

 

No, I might wish for 175 but the last year its been about 187 for the most part. On long steep uphill grades it may get to 201 but drops back to 187 as soon as we top out.
This past April, at Sand Hollow, my transmission committed suicide. The replacement from Rev6Sports has the 12% gear reduction for "H". With that installed,
my typical coolant temp is about 194 degrees.

Why my valve guides wore out at just shy of 10K miles. I'm pretty clueless. I've kept clean Outerwears on the two intakes under the hood and one over the air filter element at all times.
I rinse the Outerwears in my BOSS' left over dishwater in the RV and set to dry. Put the clean set in. I inspect the inside of the air filter element every time I change the Outerwears looking
for tan spots that would indicate dust has gotten through the filter media. When the filter element is out. I use a wet towel to wipe out the air box. Prior to putting the air filter element back in
I put just a thin coal of Joe Gibbs assembly lube on the inside of the mating surface so it seals to the neck in the air box. So I'm not getting any dust into the intake ducts.

Now the aluminum cylinder head casting is pretty rough! I kept my old one as I can get replacement valve guides. So I'm going to be looking for someone with expertise in port and polish to clean up the cylinder head. The flow characteristics of the head may have something to do with how long it lasts. The precision fit of the valve guides might also play into how long things last.

Here's a link to my post with pics and a video of how loose the valve guides are.

Doing the Top End

Some people say there are no stupid questions. Well that’s BS, I know there are… and here’s one now: Just saw Pirate talking about having the ‘Top End’ done on his ride. I’m not much of a wrench guy and I don’t know what that means. But I’ve read enough posts by Pirate to know it must mean...

www.polarisgeneralforum.com

Pirate

 

Mine runs about 174 but idling for awhile brings it to 205 degrees. Thats when the fan clicks on and brings it to 192. Lots of snow plowing runs it from 192 to 205 due to low gear/low speed running.

 

The cooler you can get your running coolant temp, the better! JMO
Pirate

 

OK speaking of running cooler, I have not changed the coolant yet. I have some Polaris coolant to use when I do. But is that the best coolant to use?
What coolant do y'all recommend?

And what's the best way to get it all drained out?
Any tips would be appreciated,
M

 

OK, so when I plow snow, I'm running at 5 mph or less, in 4X4 and low gear. The fan comes on at 205 degrees and brings it down to 192.
I take it this is bad?

Any technique's to getting all of the old coolant completely out before I add new? Where do I drain it from?
M

 

It's just warmer than some would like... some guys run those temps with no issues. Some guys feel it's to warm and could lead to premature wear... it's up to you to decide.

If you're looking for a good way to drain/fill your system, @TaterTots did a nice write up not too long ago. Look it up, it's step by step...

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Well, one cannot expect each of these to give you the full coolant temperature drop when combined. Each by themselves. Perhaps. But that was never my intent.
I didn't like rolling down a trail at 192 to 200 degrees. Why? I dunno. Just seemed hotter than necessary. My experiences the the previous 25 years had been with air cooled engines. So the RZR 800 was a big change. I installed the UTV Inc. Fan Override kit on the RZR 800. And used it all the time the machine was moving. That cut the coolant temp. How much. Sorry, I don't remember.
Early in the life of the General I added the UTV Inc. Fan Override switch and that helped by close to 10 degrees. I had done the Polaris recall to replace the Steering Column fastener and the ECU reprogramming in September 2017. I got my DuraClutch kit just about the same time and installed it. Had no problems until we got to Gold Camp, AZ in January 2018. First day out we got about 8 miles from the RV Park and experienced the Misfire Detection issue. We experienced it quite few times that day. Contacted DuraClutch and began doing some field engineering for them. They sent me different weights, different belts, then another Primary Clutch. Nothing changed. We returned to Colorado the middle of February 2018. That's when I found Terry Gilomen. I purchased a new ECU with his full program. That was the end of the Misfire Detection issue. But talking with Terry, he told me about richening the mixture a bit and that would reduce the coolant temperature by perhaps ten
degrees and provide perhaps eight or nine more horsepower. Sounded good to me!
I believe it was early in 2019 and we were in Arizona, that I read about the SuperATV HD radiator. The cost wasn't much more than a stock radiator, and being a curious Mechanical Engineer, I ordered one when we got home to Colorado. Open the box and was immediately impressed with the construction. Managing a number of major boiler repair in Coal Fired power plant boilers I've seen lots of welding. The TIG welding on this radiator was impressive. The welder a true attention to detail. Now, to be honest. It took me more than a month to figure out how to install the radiator and get it standing vertical. Today the lower bracket you get with the kit, I think, is from the drawing I shared. SuperATV's top bracket, it's better than mine. But, I had to completely drain the coolant system to make the radiator change. I had seen Engine Ice mentioned somewhere. So I thought, why not give it a shot. Bought it online at Amazon for a decent price, delivered in two days. And filled the coolant system and bled it in accordance with the Polaris instructions at the Bleed Screw. So all of this work was completed by Spring 2019 before we headed to Moab for the ROTR.

In Moab my coolant temp rand in the 175 to 187 degree range. Going up grades makes the coolant temperature rise. I have to think that's a function of the size of the coolant passages in the engine, the length of the coolant hoses between the engine and radiator and the efficiency of the water pump. Probably some of each. The coolant system operated in this temperature range until April 2022. We were at Sand Hollow. On our second day, having a great time on the sand, then heading back to camp. The right side bearing of the Idler shaft failed catastrophically, the case broke open. The break being probably 6 inches in length. The outer race of the bearing at the right side of the transmission, Idler shaft, broke into seven pieces, the ball retainer strips broke into numerous pieces and the balls were released into the transmission. So we were DONE for the trip. I ordered a Rev6Sports remanufactured transmission with lots of upgrades including the 12% gear reduction.
I only have about 350 miles on that transmission. Yes, from April 17th to September 16th the General was a hanger queen for a variety of reasons.
But getting out riding again I noted that the "normal" coolant temperature had risen to 194 degrees F. Thus far I suspect the gear reduction in the "H" range of the new transmission is the reason.
The rpm at a given speed in "H" is now the same rpm as in "L". So running the higher rpm may be the reason.

I believe what I read on Engine Ice was a 10 degree coolant temperature drop when driving. I never expected 50 degrees.
Again, making all the changes, I never expected the full advertised coolant temperature reduction with each one. Thermodynamics doesn't work that way. Some of the "upgrades" I did in my search for a cooler running engine were just curiosity. I've been retired since June 3rd, 2011. I've been a gearhead since I was a kid on the farm starting in 1967. (If I didn't want to walk a mile or more when the '51 Chevy truck quit..it was learn to fix it or walk. So I got an auto mechanics book and started learning.) Some of it was always dreaming of having a Mopar muscle car that I couldn't afford while paying for the Engineering Degree. So here I am, something gets my curiosity, I'll purchase it, install it, and see if I can get it to work. I have a good number of things in boxes that I couldn't get to work. But that's the way it goes. But it does help me answer questions here on the forum.
Perhaps this helps a bit??
Oh, and where did the Pirate handle come from. Clipped in a right and turn on a Harley, in Albuquerque, on May 23rd, 2008. Trauma to left optic nerve has left eye totally blind. Wore an eyepatch for two years. Now a laser engraved lens. Pirates often have an eyepatch over one eye. Me too. So moved from Iceman in the biking world to Pirate in the UTV world.
Pirate

 

So here I am, something gets my curiosity, I'll purchase it, install it, and see if I can get it to work.


Perhaps this helps a bit??

It's great that you want to try things out, but to recommend some products to others that aren't proven to help in others situations isn't good either. It's just a waste of time/money for the other person. Ow if these items made your general run significantly cooler, i could agree that your trials have done something. But it just doesnt seem like your trusls have gained you much if anything at all... That's where my issue comes in. You've tried this stuff, you've recommended this stuff to people. But in reality your machine doesn't run any cooler than a stock machine can...

Now I realize that yours isn't stock, but to recommend engine ice, utv fan override and a SATV rad to people for an over heat issue I think is a waste of money/time. These items don't seem to do anything great. Now I'm not saying their terrible or bad either. They maybe great replacement parts for guys that are looking to change coolant or guys that have a hole in their radiatior or guys that are looking to be able to control fan operation manually... but these items aren't a "over heating" fix....


Please don't take this the wrong way, you do have a ton of knowledge about stuff I have zero knowledge of and are a great person to have on this forum...

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But really, all of the things I have done will help a General run cooler. If you're looking for a single step...
First is the Gilomen Innovations ECU program. Look at their website for a listing of the good things it will provide.
Second is the UTV Inc. Fan Override kit. Having control over the cooling fan will help your machine run cooler.
Third is Engine Ice. I'm sure it helps reduce coolant temperature some. One of my big reasons for going with it, it's not toxic. I have a pair of 15 pound rescue dogs. They don't come down to the Toybarn that often. But I do not want to lose one or both of them due to lapping up a toxic anti-freeze.
Fourth is the SuperATV HD Radiator. Looks to me like the kit has come a long way since I bought mine. If you smash a radiator, or have one that develops a leak around a hose connection. These aluminum radiators, that I know of, aren't repairable like the brass radiators in antique automobiles. The HD radiator is a about the same price as a Polaris radiator. So it's something to consider.

Of course if you have questions...don't be afraid to ask! Remember, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask!
Pirate

 

Just wondering if you got your hard starting problem figured out?
It might be a stupid question but when was the last time you changed the air filter and checked and cleaned the Mass air flow sensor, either one of those would cause your hard start. Also check the ambient air temp sensor because if it is starting hard in the cold it might not be reading the right temp.

 

Well its still hard starting. The soonest appointment to see a Polaris dealer to look at the valves is Jan 3rd.
If I start it, I have to idle it high around 2000 rpm until it gets warm enough to idle on its own. Sometimes its real stubborn and will have to be cranked more than I am comfortable with.
Sometimes when it first starts it will have a pronounced miss for a few seconds and then evens out.
Today it lit the orange check engine light on the dash. I let it idle for awhile and it eventually went away. I checked for an error code and there was none.
A few days ago, I got it started and the engine light came on after a lot of effort to get it to start. So I drove real easy and gently for a few hundred yards and the engine light went out.
Once its up to 174 degrees and has been driven a bit, I can shut it off and it starts right back up like its brand new.
So I guess I wait till Jan 3.
As long as we're on the subject of hard starting, this has been some wear and tear on the starter. Is that hard to replace? Is it a hassle to get to? Its still working but I can imagine its worse for wear now.

 

MKP,
Have you tried listening to the motor to see if there is leak down?
The fact that it is so hard to start the first time afterwards it starts every time first time, is exactly what I had and it was worn valve guides.
To have the dealer check the valves, that would be checking the "boots" between the valve and cam. If anything with mileage they will get looser. Which means the valve will seat
better. In other words worn boot will have more valve gap and valve will come to full seat without issue. If they are too tight, the valves won't close and engine won't start (been there done that on a GM 454. Had to loosen the rocker arm adjuster 1/2 turn loose, started right off)
Here is a pic of the valve springs, keepers and "boots" for my engine during last Novembers top end at Gilomen Innovations.
Note they are just a metal cup, with round extension in the center to help keep it centers in the valve spring top. The rest of the valve are just sitting upside down in their boots.
None of my boots had to be changed due to wear.

I would ask the dealer to do a "leak down" test first and see if there is an issue there.
If you look at the pic below, this is my cylinder piece before cleaning. Note the cylinders still
have quite a bit of the factory finish honing cross-hatch. The issue wasn't piston ring/cylinder wall wear.
But did put in a new set of piston rings.

Just something I ask you to check before taking it to a dealer and being charged upwards of $800 to have
the valve boots checked. (that's what mine cost three years ago and they changed 3 boots! Expensive to say the least.)
Pirate

 

Well I was going to have them check the valve clearance and adjust if necessary. They told me its 2 hours shop time for valve adjustment.
I can't get in there for a month anyhow.
And now I just put up another post detailing something else that is wrong I discovered to day. The 1WD won't work now. 2WD acts like 1WD. 1WD feels like neutral.

 

Axle popped out? Look closely...

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What am I trying to see? I don't know what I'm doing.

 

Look to see if the axle is popped out of the rear differential.... you'll see a 1" (ISH) diameter shaft with splines if it's out. This will go out to your rear tires. Located middle of the A arm on both sides...

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On each rear axle there is a rubber bellows that covers the inner and outer CV-Joint.
The inner bellows large diameter end should be right up against the Transmission case.
If the axle has come out of the Transmission, you will see a splined shaft about 1" in diameter and about 1.25" long. Thar is the part that plugs into the Transmission. If it has popped out, that's why you don't have traction on that side.
Take a look and pics and let us know what you find.
Pirate

 

It definitely is out. I have pics but they won't seem to upload. Its the left rear axle.