Losing lug nuts!
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Shouldn't need to...
Few things that come to mind:
1) Were the lugs ever over torqued? If they were replace the studs, they most likely have stretched and are continuing to do so...
2) Are the threads on the lugs clean? If not clean AND lube the stud before torquing down
3) Are the holes in your rims perfectly round? If not, buy new rims
4) Are the rims clean where the rim contacts the hub? Is the hub clean? If not, clean them both before putting the rims on...
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Few things that come to mind:
1) Were the lugs ever over torqued? If they were replace the studs, they most likely have stretched and are continuing to do so...
2) Are the threads on the lugs clean? If not clean AND lube the stud before torquing down
3) Are the holes in your rims perfectly round? If not, buy new rims
4) Are the rims clean where the rim contacts the hub? Is the hub clean? If not, clean them both before putting the rims on...
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Excellent points! When I remove my wheels, I clean the studs with parts cleaner and a brass brush. Then a drop of cutting fluid on the stud and run a thread chaser over the threads. A shot of parts cleaner and brass brush to get anything off the threads. Blow them off with compressed air. Then a thin coat of nickel based anti seize.
I run a bottoming tap into each lug nut. Then blow out with compressed air.
I torque the lug nuts in two steps. 60 ft-lbs and then 120 ft-lbs. When all four wheels are mounted, one more time at 120 ft-lbs.
A bit of work, but I only do it when all four wheels are off. Either for maintenance or a couple times a year.
Haven't had one come loose yet.
Pirate
I run a bottoming tap into each lug nut. Then blow out with compressed air.
I torque the lug nuts in two steps. 60 ft-lbs and then 120 ft-lbs. When all four wheels are mounted, one more time at 120 ft-lbs.
A bit of work, but I only do it when all four wheels are off. Either for maintenance or a couple times a year.
Haven't had one come loose yet.
Pirate
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Be Sure your lug nuts are not bottoming out before they get tight. Causing a loose wheel. Causing them to back off.
All VERY good advice. Especially, you should replace all your wheel studs. Since you know that you have lost some nuts, the remaining nuts on the wheel held all the weight and forces of your General. Whether or not you have ever over-torqued your nuts, your studs have been over-streached because of the overload that they have endured. At the same time, you should replace all of the nuts. It's all an attachment system. Like with any other vehicle, if you ever break one stud, replace ALL the studs, because the system has been overloaded.
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I never lube the studs before putting on the lug nuts. Couple of reasons. 1- You will over torque them if they are lubed and you still take them to the max torque spec. 2 - A lubed stud/nut will come loose easier. Just torque them on clean, dry studs and you shouldn't have any more issues. I would replace them all, studs and nuts and start fresh.
I respectfully disagree. The point of the lube is to prevent the threads from binding early before the nut actually gets to put the torque to the rim/hub face. If it doesnt get the right squeeze and stud strech you dont get the wheel properly tightened. You then risk the threads "binding" early, and the torque then gets applied to the threads. The nut is not then tight to the rim or not as tight as it should be...
The theory is the same for debris on the threads. If there is debris on the threads, the same thing happens...
ARP actually makes a specially formulated lube for high torque situations... it's called ARP ultra torque.... granted the ARP stuff is more so designed for inside engines, the same theory applies...
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I have been putting anti-seize on my my lug nuts for 30 years, And have never had ONE come loose yet. I torque everything to spec. Maybe I'm just lucky. Not saying it's in the bible but that's what works for me.
The Tire and Rim Mfg Association says to assemble conical-seat wheel nuts clean and dry. The only situation where they say to use lubricant is one drop of 30wt between nut and washer and two drops of 30wt on the threads - ONLY on encapsulated thrust washer type of wheel attachment. That being said, I use wheel bearing grease on the threads on all my vehicles. No - I didn't say that, did I? I just don't want my wheel nuts to pull the threads upon removal after enduring years of salty air here on the coast. Coming from a certified tire service instructor. At least, I can assure you that I have NO classified documents in my house - or behind my Corvette.
ck your manual most torque spec. are dry torque this means no lube of any type. Also i didnt see if using aftermartet wheels and stock studs the taper may not match and this will also come loose. Never ues antisize on wheels studsthis is a big no no per all wheels specs. Oh i dont claim to know everything but i have been a mech for 40 years now. So i still learn new things
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I agree with some of you. I put a dab (don’t slather it on like cake icing) of antiseize on studs before I mount the wheel and torque the lugnuts. Here in the midwest, if you drive in the snow, salt and slush, you’ll run the risk of rust developing on the threads. I’ve seen it more than once, firsthand. A little antiseize goes a long ways. Been doing this on every vehicle I own for over thirty years and have never had an issue with a wheel coming loose. Not really interested in arguing if this goes against the way someone else does it.
As for the op, there has to be an issue going on with your setup. Stretched threads, worn out lug seats, something… need to closely inspect all the mating surfaces and potentially replace all the lugs and studs.
As for the op, there has to be an issue going on with your setup. Stretched threads, worn out lug seats, something… need to closely inspect all the mating surfaces and potentially replace all the lugs and studs.
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Holy moly! The science of lug nuts and knowledge on the matter here is astounding.
Here is my proven approach...
I hand tighten each lug nut while holding the wheel flat against the hub. In a criss-cross pattern. With the wheel off of the ground.
I then set my impact to its lightest setting and repeat the process.
I then lower the vehicle and turn the impact to its highest setting (5th dot on my Ingersoll 1/2" pneumatic impact). I then hit each lug nut in a criss cross pattern a couple of times. Usually a good brrrrrrap-brrrrrap each time around.
After that I clean up my shop and go about my day.
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Here is my proven approach...
I hand tighten each lug nut while holding the wheel flat against the hub. In a criss-cross pattern. With the wheel off of the ground.
I then set my impact to its lightest setting and repeat the process.
I then lower the vehicle and turn the impact to its highest setting (5th dot on my Ingersoll 1/2" pneumatic impact). I then hit each lug nut in a criss cross pattern a couple of times. Usually a good brrrrrrap-brrrrrap each time around.
After that I clean up my shop and go about my day.
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Well OK. I've never had a lug nut come loose, let alone come off. In my career I worked many a steam turbine/generator set overhaul. Every single bolt/stud from 3/8" to 6" went on with nickel based anti seize. So I will continue with my practice.
I did a google search for Torque dry vs lubricated. Among a lot of good information, I found this:
"Because quality anti-seize compounds are generally excellent lubricants, the required torque to produce the correct tension will be lower than for a dry fastener."
Torquing dry lug nut on a lubricated stud to 120 ft-lbs. Interesting to look at all the Torque charts on google. I find the torque for a 12mm bolt/stud is 135 ft-lbs. This is 12.5% more than the 120 ft-lbs Polaris calls for on lug nuts. I really doubt that the difference in dry or anti seize lubricated at 120 ft-lbs is enough to reach the yield strength of a metric class 10.9 stud.
It is easier to damage a dirty wheel stud or dirty lug nut. You will find a good deal on google with regards to what is the leading cause of bolt failure. It's failure to make sure the bolt and nut are clean.
This is my primary effort.
Just thoughts. Do what you feel is the right thing to do for your machine.
Pirate
Not saying antiseize is not great stuff i use it all the time just when having personal experance with semi wheels coming loose and the shop buying 3 sets of wheels i was placed on the job and cleaned off all the silver stuff and replaced the wheels and torque to spec cust went away and had no problems after that. I seen a set of wheels come off on the hwy . Thank God no one was hurt but they really caused alot of damage before they stopped. I also said the ck to make sure the wheel and nut tapers match.Thats all i got to say. Thanks
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Sometimes anti seize is called for and many times it isn't.
It is best to see what the manufacturer recommends.
Sometimes using anti seize where is is not recommended can cause you grief and cost you lots of money.
This is what my owners manual says and this is the way I do it and it works just like it is supposed to.
"AXLE AND WHEEL NUT TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
Inspect the following items occasionally for tightness, and if they've been
loosened for maintenance service. Do not lubricate the stud or the lug nut."
It is best to see what the manufacturer recommends.
Sometimes using anti seize where is is not recommended can cause you grief and cost you lots of money.
This is what my owners manual says and this is the way I do it and it works just like it is supposed to.
"AXLE AND WHEEL NUT TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
Inspect the following items occasionally for tightness, and if they've been
loosened for maintenance service. Do not lubricate the stud or the lug nut."
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In the interest of continued conversation, respectful debating, and hearing varied responses regarding torque values… I can’t recall what Polaris machine it was I had, but there was also two different torque values; one for steel wheels and one with aluminum wheels.
Ready? Set? Go!
Ready? Set? Go!
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