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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So my 2019 General is getting harder and harder to start when cold. I tried chemicals like HEET and other types of additives to clean injectors. It didn't help.
Its gotten bad enough that now I when I start it when cold I have to keep my foot on the pedal to do a high idle until it has some engine temp and then it will idle normally.
It should be noted, there is 10k miles on this General.

I've done all the maintenance on the motor as detailed by the manual, I did plugs last year and all the fluids every 100 hours.
I have never checked the valves though. I watched Youtube's on that and it looks beyond my capability to adjust the valves.

This morning, it lit an engine light. The orange engine symbol on the instrument panel came up and flashed at me for a bit, then went solid.
After it idled though, the engine symbol went away.
Is there a place to plug in a code reader on these? (Is it the same plug as the ones on normal passenger cars)?

Thanks for any information!

Mike
 

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Here's what I do...

1) Turn the key on and allow all the relays, etc. to get set.

2) Crank the motor for a few seconds then let off.

3) Turn the key all the way off and let sit for a few seconds.

4 ) Repeat step one then two.

Mine usually starts right up if I do this. If I don't, I could crank it until the battery were dead and it wouldn't ever start. This is on a '22 with less than 1,100mi. It has done this since new.

Someone else told me it was the neoprene seals used in the fuel rail.

A dealership I called had no idea about the problem and didn't know where they'd start in recommending a fix.

Using this procedure I was able to start mine yesterday after a very cold morning. The engine temp on the display read 7 degrees and it started right up.



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Here's what I do...

1) Turn the key on and allow all the relays, etc. to get set.

2) Crank the motor for a few seconds then let off.

3) Turn the key all the way off and let sit for a few seconds.

4 ) Repeat step one then two.

Mine usually starts right up if I do this. If I don't, I could crank it until the battery were dead and it wouldn't ever start. This is on a '22 with less than 1,100mi. It has done this since new.

Someone else told me it was the neoprene seals used in the fuel rail.

A dealership I called had no idea about the problem and didn't know where they'd start in recommending a fix.

Using this procedure I was able to start mine yesterday after a very cold morning. The engine temp on the display read 7 degrees and it started right up.



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You have something wrong. What it is IDK. But my 22 started this morning at temps around zero. Hit the key for maybe 3 seconds and it fired right up. Just like a summer morning

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@MKP
I would definitely get the valves set on it. That would be a good start.
 
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I would second the valve adjustment. Maybe a leak down test before that to confirm if it needs to be done....

Also I font remember if you stated it. But what fuel are you running? High octane doesn't work with a general in cold temps. I personally blend 87 (3 gal) with 91 (7 gal). I run 91 only because it's ethanol free, I hate that crap

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I use 87. Papermaker advised me on that.
OK I'll try what Kinekilla said but I also am looking at a shop about 35 minutes away that is a Polaris dealership to see if they'll check and if necessary adjust the valves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also, what I've noticed is, when it does come down to an idle, it does an initial momentary stumble with the idle. If it survives that, it remains idling. When its heated up, it idles and starts fine.
When its cold it has a hard time surviving that stumble. Once I get it going, I bring it up to around 2000 rpm and then with all the finesse I can muster, I let it down to idle. If I do it gently enough, it will survive the stumble and keep idling.
 

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2018 General here. My General was taking about 10 seconds of cranking to start. Unreasonable. My riding partner (a long-time mechanic) told me that any time his machine is not started for more than a few days, he turns the key on for about 10 seconds (without turning the engine over), turns it off, then starts it like normal. He says that some fuel injected engines will lose fuel pressure on the fuel rails, and it takes a lot of cranking before it pressurizes the rails enough for the injectors to squirt gas into the cylinders. It works for me. Not sure whether that's all correct or not, but it works.
 

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Is there a place to plug in a code reader on these? (Is it the same plug as the ones on normal passenger cars)?

Thanks for any information!

Mike
There is a port under the hood that they connect the Polaris digital wrench to, so they can read the ECU. You can get an adapter that converts the digital wrench connector to an ODB2 connector. It can then be read by any ODB2 reader.

I have one like this: OBD2 To 8 Pin Diagnostic Adapter for Polaris ATV Slingshot | eBay

It works on my General and our Indian motorcycles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
2018 General here. My General was taking about 10 seconds of cranking to start. Unreasonable. My riding partner (a long-time mechanic) told me that any time his machine is not started for more than a few days, he turns the key on for about 10 seconds (without turning the engine over), turns it off, then starts it like normal. He says that some fuel injected engines will lose fuel pressure on the fuel rails, and it takes a lot of cranking before it pressurizes the rails enough for the injectors to squirt gas into the cylinders. It works for me. Not sure whether that's all correct or not, but it works.
Does yours die after starting?
Mine does if I don't finesse the idle with very light pressure on the gas.
When its cold, I can get it to start but it just won't stay started until it gets warm.
 

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Have you checked your fuel pressure?
It should be 58# + or - 2#.
If you need a fuel pump order from here. These are darn good pumps!

Quantum Fuel Systems
4476 Dupont Ct
Ste A
Ventura, California 93003
18185743835
http://www.highflowfuel.com
 
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2016 Polaris General Deluxe, 10% OEM
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I've done a post on this...but didn't add it to my favorites...
With engine cold, bed up, and someone else to turn the key.

But, like a compression test, have person #2 turn the cold engine over half a dozen times or so.
With you having an ear right down by the valve cover and listening. If you hear air moving, sort of like a breeze to wind blowing...
it's a pretty good indication that the cylinders are leaking down.
Did this on my 2016 General at about 9800 miles. Yup, I could clearly hear the wind blowing. So not wanting to tear into the machine myself...at 67 years of age, etc.
I took mine to Terry Gilomen at Gilomen Innovations. He had all the parts on hand to to a top end, so all was ready.

As it turned out, the valve guides were badly worn. To the point the valves were not seating properly and air was leaking past and poor compression and danged hard to start!
But after I did get it started...after perhaps ten tries. You know, turn the key and a cylinder pops and you think it's going to start and doesn't. Or you crank it over enough to think
you better stop for a minute.
But then it does start. After is idle for a minute or two, you can shut the engine off, and it will restart on the first try. It will restart on the first try all day long...until it sits overnight and
gets cold...and you start all over.

I have come to see that this happens due to the aluminum cylinder head. The guides are badly worn. The valves are sloppy in the guides. As you are going through the ten try starting
process, each time a cylinder fires...you are putting head into that aluminum cylinder head. Gradually you get enough to swell the aluminum, the swelling shrinks the aluminum around the
valve guides to the point it holds the valve in place and the valve seals against the valve seat in the head. As soon as you get some coolant temp, the cylinder head has expanded and will
stay that way until the engine is fully cold...overnight.

For mine, it wound up taking a new cylinder head with all the components. Did not require any changes to the, what are they, boots for valve adjustment.
That was last November. She's started on the first try every time since. Even after sitting for months after the transmission committed suicide.

I'll bet that's your issue. Some say it should last a lot longer...but look at the rpm these engines are turning when we're out on the trail.
Pirate
 

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No, a new bare head is about $800 or so.
The complete top end with new everything including piston rings (cylinders still had most of the finish honing cross hatch pattern present)
Including labor was $2300.
So not that bad, but not cheap either.
And I'm not sure that 10K miles isn't about right. The Prostar motor is not like today's automotive engines that will go 200K miles without being touched. If you notice, a lot of them are turning 2100 rpm at 75mph. We're turning 7000 rpm at 55mph.
Pirate
 

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I had no idea when I bought this, the motor would only last 10k miles.
A new cylinder head sounds very expensive.
I think it's worth noting that Pirate has done more things than most guys to get his general to run cooler. If memory serves me correctly he was around 175* (correct me if I'm wrong pirate). I believe that's too cool and could be part of why his top end wore out quickly. There's also lots of other factors to wearing out motors, but that's a different topic...

There's plenty of guys that go past 10k miles without issues, I think part of that is luck...

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No, I might wish for 175 but the last year its been about 187 for the most part. On long steep uphill grades it may get to 201 but drops back to 187 as soon as we top out.
This past April, at Sand Hollow, my transmission committed suicide. The replacement from Rev6Sports has the 12% gear reduction for "H". With that installed,
my typical coolant temp is about 194 degrees.

Why my valve guides wore out at just shy of 10K miles. I'm pretty clueless. I've kept clean Outerwears on the two intakes under the hood and one over the air filter element at all times.
I rinse the Outerwears in my BOSS' left over dishwater in the RV and set to dry. Put the clean set in. I inspect the inside of the air filter element every time I change the Outerwears looking
for tan spots that would indicate dust has gotten through the filter media. When the filter element is out. I use a wet towel to wipe out the air box. Prior to putting the air filter element back in
I put just a thin coal of Joe Gibbs assembly lube on the inside of the mating surface so it seals to the neck in the air box. So I'm not getting any dust into the intake ducts.

Now the aluminum cylinder head casting is pretty rough! I kept my old one as I can get replacement valve guides. So I'm going to be looking for someone with expertise in port and polish to clean up the cylinder head. The flow characteristics of the head may have something to do with how long it lasts. The precision fit of the valve guides might also play into how long things last.

Here's a link to my post with pics and a video of how loose the valve guides are.
Pirate
 
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