[surfdoggins]

Was excited to see this new Polaris as I've recently sold my Rhino 700 and wanted to replace it with something I can use for both play and work around my property. Looking at the specs, I'm disappointed to learn that this only has a AWD system that automatically switches from 2wd to AWD? How good can this really go in the mud, snow, and over rocks especially with no kind of differential locks? I also just found out about the new Honda Pioneer 1000 ESP and just checked it out on the Honda website and it seems the two are similar overall but the Honda has a better transmission (no belt too!), better tow and bed carrying capabilities, and has the ability to lock the differentials up and to put it in 4WD anytime you want to.

Any thoughts on the two would be appreciated as this is going to be a big purchase for us. Thanks!

 

[coalbucket]

I could be wrong but I believe you must engage the switch for it to automatically go in and out of AWD. At least that is how there RZR's are. And yes! belts due wear out. But it is way cheaper to replace a belt now and then versus having to make a repair to the transmission on the Honda. Honda usually makes reliable equipment but no vehicle is perfect and transmissions do break occasionally. There are pros and cons to both. In my opinion, I would rather change the belt

 

[PolarBear]

Which General model were you thinking of? The Deluxe?

 

[surfdoggins]

No, was looking at the Premium. Don't think I would need the Fox shocks and don't have a need for listening to tunes when I'm riding. So the Premium was the model that most interested me. The more I look at both of them the more I think the Pioneer is the better bet as your getting more for your money. I also like the idea of having three seats which might come in handy at some point. It seems the General might be a little more "sporty" but these are utility quads and it seems like the Pioneer offers more at the same price point. If I wanted a sport quad I would just purchase a RZR as they rule the market. But at this point I'm definitely leaning towards the Pioneer as it seems to be the better of the two. Have never owned a Honda (I've been a Yamaha guy most of my life but their side by sides stink compared to Polaris) but I've never heard bad things about them. Have you?

 

[Forti5edGeneral]

No, was looking at the Premium. Don't think I would need the Fox shocks and don't have a need for listening to tunes when I'm riding. So the Premium was the model that most interested me. The more I look at both of them the more I think the Pioneer is the better bet as your getting more for your money. I also like the idea of having three seats which might come in handy at some point. It seems the General might be a little more "sporty" but these are utility quads and it seems like the Pioneer offers more at the same price point. If I wanted a sport quad I would just purchase a RZR as they rule the market. But at this point I'm definitely leaning towards the Pioneer as it seems to be the better of the two. Have never owned a Honda (I've been a Yamaha guy most of my life but their side by sides stink compared to Polaris) but I've never heard bad things about them. Have you?

You can even find Pioneers on the used market since they've been released a while ago now. Good way to get even more bang for your buck, allocating your savings into mods and accessories.

 

[BDK]

Surfdoggins, I personally think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Pioneer 1000 would compete more directly with the Polaris Ranger 900, can am defender, Kawasaki mule Pro-fx, Arctic cat prowler HDX, or the Yamaha Viking. They are more work focused, all have 3 seats, and most have a 1000lb bed capacity. The Polaris General on the other hand competes with (and currently dominates) the Can Am Commander, Kawasaki Teryx, Yamaha Wolverine, and the standard Arctic cat Prowler line. All of these machines have 2 seats, a smaller bed, and the standard for the class is a 600lb bed capacity.

Also, I believe u misunderstand the Polaris AWD system. The standard system available on almost all Polaris models has a permanently locked rear axle and when the AWD switch is engaged the vehicle remains essentially in 2wd until the computers senses the rear tires are spinning faster than the front and then it automatically engages the permanently locked front differential. While I feel this is an inferior system to the Yamaha diff lock you are accustomed to, it does work well and it keeps the steering very light in 4wd as well as allowing it to be a shift on the fly system. I've have crawled all over Moab in my Rzr and hit countless mud holes in it and on my Polaris Atv's and it has never failed to engaged all 4 tires with truly locked differentials. Polaris does offer "turf mode" on some models that will allow you to unlock the rear differential in addition to 2wd and AWD which allows you to turn sharper and not tear up the "turf", hence the name.

I am not arguing that the Pioneer is an overall better machine for your purposes because it very well may be, but you shouldn't bash a machine that hasn't even hit show rooms yet, especially if you don't have your facts straight.
Even tho I currently own 2, I am not a Polaris fan boy by any means. My last 2 Sxs were Kawasaki's and there's a good chance my next one will be either a Honda, Yamaha, or Kawasaki depending on what's on the market when the time comes. Although Polaris, Can Am, and Arctic Cat have came a long way, I still believe the build quality of the Japanese manufacturers is superior.

 

[surfdoggins]

Surfdoggins, I personally think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Pioneer 1000 would compete more directly with the Polaris Ranger 900, can am defender, Kawasaki mule Pro-fx, Arctic cat prowler HDX, or the Yamaha Viking. They are more work focused, all have 3 seats, and most have a 1000lb bed capacity. The Polaris General on the other hand competes with (and currently dominates) the Can Am Commander, Kawasaki Teryx, Yamaha Wolverine, and the standard Arctic cat Prowler line. All of these machines have 2 seats, a smaller bed, and the standard for the class is a 600lb bed capacity.

Also, I believe u misunderstand the Polaris AWD system. The standard system available on almost all Polaris models has a permanently locked rear axle and when the AWD switch is engaged the vehicle remains essentially in 2wd until the computers senses the rear tires are spinning faster than the front and then it automatically engages the permanently locked front differential. While I feel this is an inferior system to the Yamaha diff lock you are accustomed to, it does work well and it keeps the steering very light in 4wd as well as allowing it to be a shift on the fly system. I've have crawled all over Moab in my Rzr and hit countless mud holes in it and on my Polaris Atv's and it has never failed to engaged all 4 tires with truly locked differentials. Polaris does offer "turf mode" on some models that will allow you to unlock the rear differential in addition to 2wd and AWD which allows you to turn sharper and not tear up the "turf", hence the name.

I am not arguing that the Pioneer is an overall better machine for your purposes because it very well may be, but you shouldn't bash a machine that hasn't even hit show rooms yet, especially if you don't have your facts straight.
Even tho I currently own 2, I am not a Polaris fan boy by any means. My last 2 Sxs were Kawasaki's and there's a good chance my next one will be either a Honda, Yamaha, or Kawasaki depending on what's on the market when the time comes. Although Polaris, Can Am, and Arctic Cat have came a long way, I still believe the build quality of the Japanese manufacturers is superior.

I'm not bashing the General I was just stating at this point (without driving both of them and just looking at the specs) I think the Pioneer is superior. I do think its a fair comparison as they are both 1,000cc machines with ESP and dump beds and cost almost the same. The other machines you mentioned with the exception of the higher end Commanders, are all less than 1000cc and cost less also. The General is being advertised as a work and trail machine, just like the Pioneer 1000. So if they cost the same, are being advertised the same, and have a lot of the same features, then why isn't this a fair comparison?

Not trying to bash you but this is a fair comparison. If you have 16 or $17,000 to spend and want a work/trail machine in the 1,000cc class, I think these are the only real options at this point. And if you compare the two, it just looks like the Honda offers more at the same price point. I did get to test ride a Pioneer this morning and was overall impressed with it although I think it will take a little while to get use to the paddle shifters if you use the manual mode. Both other than that, I think its a good machine. Much better than my Rhino 700 that I had even with the $5,000+ aftermarket parts I put into it.

I will wait until I can test ride a General and can find out more about the AWD system before I make a final judgement. Thanks for the insight on the AWD system as I'm not familiar with it or any Polaris 4wd systems. I do know from experience though that nothing beats having front are rear lockers. Anyone with experience with them know what I'm talking about when the going gets ruff. And that is my main reason for leaning towards the Pioneer at this point.

 

[surfdoggins]

The Pioneer 1000 was just released as its a new model. Would not consider the older 700 or 500 models.

 

[BDK]

I'm not bashing the General I was just stating at this point (without driving both of them and just looking at the specs) I think the Pioneer is superior. I do think its a fair comparison as they are both 1,000cc machines with ESP and dump beds and cost almost the same. The other machines you mentioned with the exception of the higher end Commanders, are all less than 1000cc and cost less also. The General is being advertised as a work and trail machine, just like the Pioneer 1000. So if they cost the same, are being advertised the same, and have a lot of the same features, then why isn't this a fair comparison?

Not trying to bash you but this is a fair comparison. If you have 16 or $17,000 to spend and want a work/trail machine in the 1,000cc class, I think these are the only real options at this point. And if you compare the two, it just looks like the Honda offers more at the same price point. I did get to test ride a Pioneer this morning and was overall impressed with it although I think it will take a little while to get use to the paddle shifters if you use the manual mode. Both other than that, I think its a good machine. Much better than my Rhino 700 that I had even with the $5,000+ aftermarket parts I put into it.

I will wait until I can test ride a General and can find out more about the AWD system before I make a final judgement. Thanks for the insight on the AWD system as I'm not familiar with it or any Polaris 4wd systems. I do know from experience though that nothing beats having front are rear lockers. Anyone with experience with them know what I'm talking about when the going gets ruff. And that is my main reason for leaning towards the Pioneer at this point.

First of all, I hope I am being informative and not coming across rude. I feel this thread is seeming a little hostile and that is certainly not my intention. I am not trying to talk you out of the pioneer, it's an excellent machine and its 1 of the top contenders for my next purchase. It sounds like you are 90% sold on it and are just waiting to see the general just to confirm what you already know, that you want the pioneer. I think you will be quite happy with either. I will absolutely concede if a $16-17k price tag, 1000cc motor, EPS, and a dump bed are all you're looking for then these 2 are the closest competitors, but if you didn't feel the need to spend that much you could always buy a Defender Hd10 (1000cc), commander 1000 or a Prowler 1000 and use the $ saved on accessories.
Also, you state that the pioneer has more of everything but that isn't true either. The general has 2-3 more inches of Suspension travel and 23 more HP, which brings me to my next point, more displacement doesn't always mean more power. The Pioneer 1000 puts out 77 HP. Heres a list of a few of the other naturally aspirated 1000cc motors on the market. I will also add here that on a work machine torque is the number that matters most but those numbers are seldom published.
Rzr XP 1000-110 hp
Rzr S 1000- 100 Hp
General 1000- 100 Hp
Wildcat X 1000- 90+ Hp
Prowler 1000- 70+ Hp
Maverick 1000- 101 Hp
Commander 1000- 85 Hp
Defender HD10- 72 Hp
YXZ 1000- 112 Hp

Now here's a list of 800-900cc motors that put out similar hp to the Pioneer 1000
Rzr Jagged X 900- 92hp
Rzr XP 900- 88 Hp
Rzr S 900- 75 Hp
Ranger XP 900- 68 hp
Commander 800- 71 hp
To put that into perspective, your rhino 700 was putting out 40hp at the crank from the factory. I am not trying to be argumentative, I'm just giving examples of how much variation there is in the output of the motors. Several 1000 class motors are actually less powerful than some much smaller motors and that depending on how they are tuned, the Polaris 900 can vary in power output by 32hp.The Can am 1000 varies by 29, and the arctic cat by at least 20. I'm sure the torque numbers also vary greatly. Basically, don't get hung up on displacement numbers, they seldom tell the whole story.

Also, both of my kawasaki Teryx's had true locking front diffs just like your Rhino so I understand what it means to have locked differentials. I also had a 2000 Honda Foreman 450S with an open front diff that left me stuck many times. I have vowed to never own another Atv/utv without a fully locked front diff. Polaris's system works well, however I am not as impressed with can am's 4wd system, it tends to be a little slow to engage.

The best footage I can find of my Rzr demonstrating the locked front axle is in the video below. If you fast forward to 1:55 you will see my black Rzr xp900 with all 4 tires pulling hard on the slick rock in Moab. If it wasn't locked only 3 would be spinning. For the record, I am in no way affiliated with RMATVMC, just a happy customer who was lucky enough to win a trip to Moab.

http://youtu.be/FVHAPtDDvok

 

[surfdoggins]

First of all, I hope I am being informative and not coming across rude. I feel this thread is seeming a little hostile and that is certainly not my intention. I am not trying to talk you out of the pioneer, it's an excellent machine and its 1 of the top contenders for my next purchase. It sounds like you are 90% sold on it and are just waiting to see the general just to confirm what you already know, that you want the pioneer. I think you will be quite happy with either. I will absolutely concede if a $16-17k price tag, 1000cc motor, EPS, and a dump bed are all you're looking for then these 2 are the closest competitors, but if you didn't feel the need to spend that much you could always buy a Defender Hd10 (1000cc), commander 1000 or a Prowler 1000 and use the $ saved on accessories.
Also, you state that the pioneer has more of everything but that isn't true either. The general has 2-3 more inches of Suspension travel and 23 more HP, which brings me to my next point, more displacement doesn't always mean more power. The Pioneer 1000 puts out 77 HP. Heres a list of a few of the other naturally aspirated 1000cc motors on the market. I will also add here that on a work machine torque is the number that matters most but those numbers are seldom published.
Rzr XP 1000-110 hp
Rzr S 1000- 100 Hp
General 1000- 100 Hp
Wildcat X 1000- 90+ Hp
Prowler 1000- 70+ Hp
Maverick 1000- 101 Hp
Commander 1000- 85 Hp
Defender HD10- 72 Hp
YXZ 1000- 112 Hp

Now here's a list of 800-900cc motors that put out similar hp to the Pioneer 1000
Rzr Jagged X 900- 92hp
Rzr XP 900- 88 Hp
Rzr S 900- 75 Hp
Ranger XP 900- 68 hp
Commander 800- 71 hp
To put that into perspective, your rhino 700 was putting out 40hp at the crank from the factory. I am not trying to be argumentative, I'm just giving examples of how much variation there is in the output of the motors. Several 1000 class motors are actually less powerful than some much smaller motors and that depending on how they are tuned, the Polaris 900 can vary in power output by 32hp.The Can am 1000 varies by 29, and the arctic cat by at least 20. I'm sure the torque numbers also vary greatly. Basically, don't get hung up on displacement numbers, they seldom tell the whole story.

Also, both of my kawasaki Teryx's had true locking front diffs just like your Rhino so I understand what it means to have locked differentials. I also had a 2000 Honda Foreman 450S with an open front diff that left me stuck many times. I have vowed to never own another Atv/utv without a fully locked front diff. Polaris's system works well, however I am not as impressed with can am's 4wd system, it tends to be a little slow to engage.

The best footage I can find of my Rzr demonstrating the locked front axle is in the video below. If you fast forward to 1:55 you will see my black Rzr xp900 with all 4 tires pulling hard on the slick rock in Moab. If it wasn't locked only 3 would be spinning. For the record, I am in no way affiliated with RMATVMC, just a happy customer who was lucky enough to win a trip to Moab.

http://youtu.be/FVHAPtDDvok

Thanks for your input and information! I agree with your points with the exception of the HP numbers. Torque is what is most important. HP numbers are just thrown around as a sales tactic. In the real world, torque is what is going to be most important and I'm fairly certain the torque numbers are much more closer than the HP numbers. The HP numbers look good but seldom do much for you out on the trails. Been riding and buying ATV's since the late 70's and have honestly never paid attention to the HP numbers on any purchase I have made. Now if they would post the torque numbers...

I'm going to check out that video right now. Thanks!

 

[Forti5edGeneral]

Thanks for your input and information! I agree with your points with the exception of the HP numbers. Torque is what is most important. HP numbers are just thrown around as a sales tactic. In the real world, torque is what is going to be most important and I'm fairly certain the torque numbers are much more closer than the HP numbers. The HP numbers look good but seldom do much for you out on the trails. Been riding and buying ATV's since the late 70's and have honestly never paid attention to the HP numbers on any purchase I have made. Now if they would post the torque numbers...

I'm going to check out that video right now. Thanks!

Good point about that sales tactic, I think what it comes down to is people like seeing a higher numbers, it's what pulls them in. But if it was some torque number that was lower they might not look twice... until they saw where that torque was being made.

 

[Alaskan47]

Great vid. Thanks

 

[BDK]

Great vid. Thanks

Thank you, it was a blast. I've looked quite a bit trying to find torque numbers on the Pioneer 1000 and didn't have any luck but I'm sure they're out there somewhere. I did stumble across an article comparing it to the Ranger XP 900 tho that some might find interesting. In my opinion the pioneer edges out the ranger, but just barely. Mostly on the transmission and a slight hp advantage. I bet we'll see a ranger 1000 next year, Polaris doesn't like being out done.

Honda Pioneer 1000 vs. Polaris Ranger XP 900 - ATV.com

 

[Jimmy Jam]

Was excited to see this new Polaris as I've recently sold my Rhino 700 and wanted to replace it with something I can use for both play and work around my property. Looking at the specs, I'm disappointed to learn that this only has a AWD system that automatically switches from 2wd to AWD? How good can this really go in the mud, snow, and over rocks especially with no kind of differential locks? I also just found out about the new Honda Pioneer 1000 ESP and just checked it out on the Honda website and it seems the two are similar overall but the Honda has a better transmission (no belt too!), better tow and bed carrying capabilities, and has the ability to lock the differentials up and to put it in 4WD anytime you want to.

Any thoughts on the two would be appreciated as this is going to be a big purchase for us. Thanks!

I'm peeking on the Honda as well, the DCT sounds so SWEET...

 

[PolarBear]

I think you can test drive SxS at the dealership. Give them both a test on the same day and see how you feel.

 

[Jimmy Jam]

For what its worth, the Pioneer 1000 uses the same motor as the new africa twin. If they behave at all similar peak power comes in at 7,500 rpm.

So if we use the hp/rpm/torque formula we should get the TQ rating for the pioneer. Although it will tell you the torque at peak HP, not peak torque.

Using the formula we get 53 ft-lb at 7,500 RPM.

It's not perfect but a ballpark to start in! HORSEPOWER TO TORQUE CALCULATOR

 

[surfdoggins]

Thank you, it was a blast. I've looked quite a bit trying to find torque numbers on the Pioneer 1000 and didn't have any luck but I'm sure they're out there somewhere. I did stumble across an article comparing it to the Ranger XP 900 tho that some might find interesting. In my opinion the pioneer edges out the ranger, but just barely. Mostly on the transmission and a slight hp advantage. I bet we'll see a ranger 1000 next year, Polaris doesn't like being out done.

Honda Pioneer 1000 vs. Polaris Ranger XP 900 - ATV.com

Drove one!!! Finally got to check out a General. But before I comment on that, I need to give a shout out to the new Yamaha YXZ1000. I had to wait for them to finish getting the General prepped so I could take it for a spin so I decided to look at the new Yamaha as it really caught my eye (kind of wicked looking if you asked me). The sales guy asked if I wanted to take it for a spin which was a stupid question. WOW! That thing flies and has got really great suspension system. Got to ride it on the AC and a little bit off road over some bumps. No comparison to my Rhino that I sold. When we got back there was a guy waiting to take a RZR 1000 S out for a spin. When he saw us pull up he began asking about the Yamaha also and asked which one was quicker. The sales guy said he didn't know but there was only one way to find out. He and another sales guy did 3 runs on the the AC and each time the Yamaha was over a length ahead of the RZR. They then switched rides and the Yamaha still beat the RZR by about a length +. Seemed like a good test as it was done on the pavement where they both would be getting great traction so there would be no real advantage in tires or 4wd systems. I just checked out the specs of both and they are both very similar in both weight and HP ratings. I guess that either tells you the advantage a regular transmission (gears) has over a belt system or the HP numbers are bloated by Polaris? Or maybe the Yamaha has a real advantage in torque? I'm not sure but the Yamaha was definitely the quicker of the two in a drag.

Anyway, back to the General. The first thing I noticed about it was the interior is much nicer than the Honda Pioneer. I liked the seats better and the dash and controls were more "car like." I actually was really impressed with the interior over what I remember from the Pioneer (the Pioneer had been sold so I couldn't do a direct comparison). The seats are much nicer than the Honda although the Honda can seat 3 or 5 with the fold up ones on the 5 model. As far as how it drove...its quick! I don't know if it felt any faster than the Honda but it seemed similar overall from what I remember. Nothing other than the interior really stood out other than I felt like the General was a little more sport and the Honda was a little more utility i think. I did like being able to use the paddle shifters on the Honda though.

I think I'm going to have to wait until they get another Honda in before I make a decision. I did ask the dealer their thoughts on the two and they couldn't really give me much as they said they don't have enough experience yet with them. The sales guy did send me to the service guy to talk a little. He said you can't go wrong with a Honda and Polaris is pretty good overall. He did state that there have been some recalls on the RZR's and they have a few common problems that they frequently see and have to fix. So I googled "RZR reliablity" when I got home and man, it seems like these bikes have a lot of problems. There was a forum where there was over a 100 pages of problems owners were talking about. I'm not sure if this is going to translate to the General as its a brand new model but it seems Polaris has some known reliability problems.

I still really liked the General. I was leaning towards the Honda before I got to check this out this morning. But know I"m not sure what to do. Even though this might kill me as I already sold my Rhino, I think I might wait a few months so I can read some professional reviews on both bike and to make sure there aren't any reliability issues with either. I would say if anybody was thinking about getting a RZR, I would check one of these out first. The interior seems much nicer than the RZR and should have similar performance with some added utility benefits. And they look good too!

 

[surfdoggins]

For what its worth, the Pioneer 1000 uses the same motor as the new africa twin. If they behave at all similar peak power comes in at 7,500 rpm.

So if we use the hp/rpm/torque formula we should get the TQ rating for the pioneer. Although it will tell you the torque at peak HP, not peak torque.

Using the formula we get 53 ft-lb at 7,500 RPM.

It's not perfect but a ballpark to start in! HORSEPOWER TO TORQUE CALCULATOR

I just read that yesterday about the motor based on the Africa Twin dual sport bike. I think I read it has like 93 or 94 horses in that bike. So it must be detuned for more torque and usable power for trail/utility use in the Pioneer. Shows you that you might be able to uncork the motor for some more HP fairly easy if someone wanted to make more of a sand machine out of it. And from what I have read, Honda has a rep for "corking up" their ATV's so I'm sure there is some HP to extract from it if someone really wanted to. I'm thinking the Polaris motor is probably high strung from the get go and probably can't get as much from it. Reminds me of when I got my first YFZ450 in May or June of 2003. I thought it was a decent bike when stock but man was it really corked up. After opening it up (exhaust and air filter/box removed), it was like another bike. I remember being able to beat my buddies Polaris 500 Predator just barely when stock but after I did those mods I was smoking him even with his aftermarket Big Gun exhaust. Those were good times! Now its all about side by sides....I must be getting old!

Thanks for the info.

 

[PolMan]

Great review! Most new models does have a bug or two that needs fixing and the same goes for cars too. The first few people to own one are like the Beta testers of a model. I think waiting for a few months is a good idea, let someone work out the kinks.
From you review, I would prefer the General over the Pioneer since it's more sporty. Think both of them will do adequately in terms of utility but I assume everyone at some point will want to take it for some off road fun.

 

[surfdoggins]

To elaborate a little on the seats and interior differences between the two...because the General has bucket seats you kind of seat in them and feel more supportive. In the Pioneer, you sit on the seat instead of kind of in it. And the materials on the General were nicer to the touch and more comfortable. To sum it up- in the Pioneer it felt like I was riding in one of my dads Chevy trucks growing up in the seventies and eighties where your just sitting on a bench seat next to each other. In the General, I felt like I was in a car not a truck. And I guess that would be what I felt like the biggest difference between the two were in the little bit of time I got to be in them. One felt like a truck and the other more like being in a car.