Polaris General Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So this is the full story.

In March was on a ride at Ivy Branch (Hatfield McCoy). As we were returning to the TH after a 3-4 hours ride, my RR SATV A-Arm (arched 1.5" offset) breaks at the adjustment collar. Common problem with those. Got it loaded back up and home.

When I bought the SATV A-Arms it was between them and the HL ones. SATV replaced the broken one, but I ordered a full set of HL ones anyway. Just not a fan of the collar adjustment. When the A-Arm broke, it also broke the bolt on the rear sway bar and it hadn't come in when I was installing the new HL A-Arms, so I left it off. I have limit straps (814's) so I figured I was good.

Next ride out, broke an axle (Rhino 2.0's, so not stock or junk). SATV replaced it under warranty. Broke one again the next ride out. But the other side this time. So needed to figure out what was going on. So I contacted 814 Suspension and he said that as long as I am running limit straps, I should not be binding the axles.

But to hopefully not have this happen again, I did 2 things. I had some SATV limit straps from before and they were about 1/2" shorter than the 814 ones even though both are 22". So I put them on and also reattached the sway bar. That should have put it all back the way it was before, except with HL A-Arms vs SATV ones.

Went out again this morning and rode nothing but Green & Blue trails and **** if I didn't break an axle back on the other side.

No idea what is going on. The axles are breaking at the inside cup. Is it possible the geometry change on the HL arms is such that it is causing this?

Should I put the SATV ones back on?

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Wife is ready to get rid of it and I am also, but we are moving to AZ next spring and I want a new machine (RZR Turbo R) for out there that hasn't been in the mud. Plus there aren't any available right now anyway.
 

·
Registered
2019 rc
Joined
·
324 Posts
Definitely sounds like some kind of a geometry problem. Are you running a lot of preload in the rear AKA lots of driveline angle. I'm running T-REX non adjustable rear offset arms but am only running 13" of rear GC with 29" tires. I would like to crank a little more preload on my ST springs but not at the cost of running any extreme driveline angle especially with the offset arms. I know that SATV recommends 2.0 axles with their arms to help with axle bind but As you know, apparently that is not fail safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Running 814's at the same preload as before. Even have slightly shorter limit straps than they require. (The SATV ones are 1/2" shorter than the 814 ones).
 
  • Like
Reactions: deanrowski

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Do the tires spin freely at full drop when the rear end is jacked up?
I don't know. My machine is at the shop right now getting serviced but will check this as soon as I get it back. I assume the transmission will have to be in neutral for this to work.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
538 Posts
I don't know. My machine is at the shop right now getting serviced but will check this as soon as I get it back. I assume the transmission will have to be in neutral for this to work.
Yep. Put her in N, and give them a spin. The 2.0's are awesome for articulation, but I still don't like to see them running at more than 35 degrees for a long period of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yep. Put her in N, and give them a spin. The 2.0's are awesome for articulation, but I still don't like to see them running at more than 35 degrees for a long period of time.
It might be a few days. The dealer put in a warranty claim for a new rack and pinion for the steering. But will give it a try as soon as I get it back. I do have a good digital inclinometer, so I will be able to check the angle on full drop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SuperATV

·
Premium Member
2016 Polaris General Deluxe, 10% OEM
Joined
·
4,875 Posts
I guess my first question is How do you ride your machine? Sounds to me like a lot of hard riding to break that many components, including a steering rack.
I've had the SATV High Clearance A-arms since before I got the General in May 2016. Installed 'em. Haven't had a problem with them.
The adjusters that allow you to set camber of the front wheels was what I wanted.
Don't quite understand.
Pirate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I guess my first question is How do you ride your machine? Sounds to me like a lot of hard riding to break that many components, including a steering rack.
Steering rack isn't broken, it just has a lot of play. So the dealer is trying to get warranty to cover it. He said it was just wear.

The rides where we broke three axles, all at HM Ivy Branch, were not severe by any means. The first one we had some friends and he is a bit of a wuss, so no Black trails at all. The second one we did do some Black trails, but nothing way out of hand and this last one was just Green and Blue and it broke BEFORE we could get to the Blacks. It has to be a geometry issue. And the last one was with the rear sway bar reattached and 1/2" shorter limit straps. So something is up. Just have to figure this out before my trip to Tennessee in September.

As for how I ride it's nothing crazy. Mainly HM and associated outlaws. Mostly Blues and Greens with a few Blacks thrown in, but they are mainly Blacks due to steep, rocky climbs with hundred foot drop-offs on one side. Farm machines could do these Blacks.

I didn't really want the adjustable camber because it IS a point of failure on those arms. And I was one of those. It was fine where it happened, but had I been 10 miles from the TH in Tennessee, that would have been a huge problem. (Just for info, you can remove the tire, strap the suspension up and get out of the woods on 3 wheels. :)).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You've gone back to your old setup (and even better with shorter straps) and are still breaking.

Unless you had issues previously, it has to be the new arms
That my thought as well. As soon as I get it back I will put the SATV arms back on, at least the rears and give it a test.

I just bought a sandblaster today so I will clean the old ones up and give them a fresh coat of paint before I reinstall them.
 

·
Premium Member
2016 Polaris General Deluxe, 10% OEM
Joined
·
4,875 Posts
Hmmm...the SATV High Clearance, Adjustable Camber A-arms are incredibly well built. The section that threads into the A-arm....the threaded section is solid, not hollow, so it would be very difficult to break. The threaded section into the A-arm is long enough to have plenty of contact with the threaded piece to make it considerably strong. So where did yours break? Happen to have a pic of the failure? Now I run RCV ball joints that are adjustable and rebuildable. The are held into the A-arm with a snap ring on the underside. I had a snap ring disappear up in the LaSalle mountains above Moab. It beat the ball joint fit all to bits. I wasn't aware of the problem until we got home. Here's a pic of the damage done:
Synthetic rubber Cylinder Gas Auto part Composite material

SATV did replace the A-arm. So I check those ball joints before we leave home on a trip!
I have no interest in the 1.5" forward offset A-arms. I run 30" tires and Shock Therapy Fox 2.5 shocks. Set to their specs, my machine sits at almost nose bleed height. Thus no rubbing.
but I really like the ability to adjust the camber so the wheels are at 0 degrees.
I did try the SATV adjustable camber rear A-arms, but they only come in 1.5" rear offset. They do not work with Turner Cycles Nitro axles, nor do they work with the STST Fox 2.5 shocks.
I would really like to be able to get those rear wheels standing straight up.

Perhaps it is a geometry issue.

the A-Arm broke, it also broke the bolt on the rear sway bar and it hadn't come in when I was installing the new HL A-Arms. Help me here. So one of the bolts that goes through the frame at the rear and threads into one of the two aluminum sway bar brackets broke? Or one of the bolts that connects the sway arm to the A-arm broke? I can see the aluminum bracket breaking, but not the bolts.
Looking at the parts fiche page. The bolts thru the aluminum brackets are 10mm the two bolts through the link that connects the Sway Bar to the A-arm aren't listed by size. But I'd bet they are 10mm or 12mm. Breaking one would mean destroying the rubber bushing first then somehow getting the steel link to guillotine the bolt in two. Surely you would have heard something when the bushing was gone. Got a pic of what broke and where?

While I'm asking...where did the axles break? And of course, got pics?

My apologies Herdfan, but something just doesn't figure for your situation. Please keep in mind the old saying...This post ain't worth s**t without pictures". Having pics helps us immensely in tryingto help you out!!
Pirate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Perhaps it is a geometry issue.

Got a pic of what broke and where?

While I'm asking...where did the axles break? And of course, got pics?

My apologies Herdfan, but something just doesn't figure for your situation. Please keep in mind the old saying...This post ain't worth s**t without pictures". Having pics helps us immensely in tryingto help you out!!
Pirate
Well, Pirate, you just threw a huge wrench into my problem. ;)

When I went back to find some pics, I also found some pics of my ride at Windrock and RRB with the new HL A-Arms. While RRB was with some friends who live in TN and came over and met us and they were newbies, so no tough trails, the day at Windrock was rough. And nothing broke.

So to the axles, all 3 broke at the inner cup. Not the actual shaft, but the parts inside the cup. So nothing had changed from the first two rides when they broke and the trip to TN. But thinking it was something to do with the removal of the rear sway bar, I put it back on and still broke one. Two one the right side and one on the left side. And this doesn't count the one that broke when the A-Arm broke.

As for the SATV rear A-Arm, the adjuster just pulled out from the A-Arm. Not sure the pics will show it very well. I think the rear one pulled out and the shock load bent the front on and it broke.

I am going to have to figure it out because I can't keep asking SATV to replace axles. And I sure don't want to spend $250/ride. ;)

So when I get it back, I am going to remove all the suspension parts and pieces and put it all back together. ( This is assuming the dealer doesn't have something I would want sitting on the floor.) I sort of remember taking it back apart after the TN trip, but not sure why. Might even bolt up the new SATV one and and run one side of each and see what happens. But if I didn't break an axle at Windrock, I am thinking it is not the A-Arms. But we will see.

But here are a few pics.

Wood Gas Concrete Building material Soil


Tire Wheel Vehicle Automotive tire Car
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Does one locate the tire further from stock?
1.5" back. But that isn't enough to put any strain on the axles.
 

·
Registered
2022 general XP on the way
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
Did you jack it up so the rear is off the ground and spin the tires to check for free spin? Or to see if there's any funny movement in the axles? Maybe have a second hand, one person in the cab giving it some gas while jacked up and you in the back looking/listening for something?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
2016 Polaris General Deluxe, 10% OEM
Joined
·
4,875 Posts
Herdfan, yeah, I'm pretty good at throwing wrenches into my own plans.
So when you say the cup broke. Would that be the CV Joint cage broke? The CV Joint balls are loose in the rubber CV Joint boot?
Let's see now. On my Turner Cycles axles the axle shaft slide into the CV Joint on a set of splines. When I go to pull one out, the two will separate, sometimes. Turner Cycles tells me just to slip
back in and when the axle is installed and the bearing carrier is in place at the outer end...the axle won't separate from the CV Joint.
Any tears in the boots?

Looking at the lower pic, the absolutely filthy one, the threads on the Adjustment piece don't look damaged...like they got pulled out of the threaded insert in the A-arm inself.
Am I correct?
How about the forward adjuster on that A-arm? Are the adjuster threads tight? Or sloppy? One thing to note. My 2016 SATV adjuster take a 29mm wrench. I installed a set for
a friend an his took a 32mm wrench. Didn't take the time to mic the threads on both to see if they were different diameter. So I wonder, wonder, do your adjuster and A-arm have
different diameter threads? That might allow it to pull apart.
How about the threads in the A-arm, how do they look?

Reading through your post again. Is there a chance you ordered, or SATV is sending you a shorter axle than is required?
Now the one that broke when the A-arm broke, I can see that. The axle has a spring clip on the axle to keep it from popping out. Thus when the A-arm broke the spring clip might have
held the axle into the trans, but in that instant, the axle pulled out of the CV Joint and that would make a mess.

If you have axles that are too short, again, they could be pulling out of the CV joint at the trans and coming apart.

Do you have one of the broken axles? How about cutting the boot off and taking pics of the roller cage and rollers? That would be most helpful in figuring this out.
How about an overall length of an axle you're using or broke? That would allow us to check against stock. I have a stock 2016 rear axle in the loft collecting dust
And a spare Turner Cycles Nitro rear axle. Both should be the same length. (I didn't bother to check) But I can measure to compare with what you're running?

My thoughts might go a good ways in figuring out what's happening...cuz it just doesn't make sense when one compares it with other failures.

Let us know what you find. Oh, and I'm capable of throwing a wrench the 60ft length of my Toybarn. Taking TBI drugs to prevent that these days...

Pirate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Did you jack it up so the rear is off the ground and spin the tires to check for free spin? Or to see if there's any funny movement in the axles? Maybe have a second hand, one person in the cab giving it some gas while jacked up and you in the back looking/listening for something?
Not yet. It's still at the dealer for some warranty work (hopefully warranty ;))

So when you say the cup broke. Would that be the CV Joint cage broke? The CV Joint balls are loose in the rubber CV Joint boot?

Any tears in the boots?
Yes. See pics. You can see a ball trying to poke out in one and a bent ring in the other.


Looking at the lower pic, the absolutely filthy one, the threads on the Adjustment piece don't look damaged...like they got pulled out of the threaded insert in the A-arm inself.
Am I correct?
That's not filthy. Not even close. You western riders are spoiled. LOL

Yeah, it pulled out, but didn't strip the threads. It pulled the welded insert out. I wish I still had it, but it hit the trash.



How about the forward adjuster on that A-arm? Are the adjuster threads tight? Or sloppy? One thing to note. My 2016 SATV adjuster take a 29mm wrench. I installed a set for
a friend an his took a 32mm wrench. Didn't take the time to mic the threads on both to see if they were different diameter. So I wonder, wonder, do your adjuster and A-arm have
different diameter threads? That might allow it to pull apart.
How about the threads in the A-arm, how do they look?
I believe mine are 29mm. On the one that broke, the threads were still in the ring. The ring weld broke and all of pulled out.

Reading through your post again. Is there a chance you ordered, or SATV is sending you a shorter axle than is required?
Now the one that broke when the A-arm broke, I can see that. The axle has a spring clip on the axle to keep it from popping out. Thus when the A-arm broke the spring clip might have
held the axle into the trans, but in that instant, the axle pulled out of the CV Joint and that would make a mess.
Nope. Just checked again myself. The rear axles are correct.

Do you have one of the broken axles? How about cutting the boot off and taking pics of the roller cage and rollers? That would be most helpful in figuring this out.
How about an overall length of an axle you're using or broke? That would allow us to check against stock. I have a stock 2016 rear axle in the loft collecting dust
And a spare Turner Cycles Nitro rear axle. Both should be the same length. (I didn't bother to check) But I can measure to compare with what you're running?
I can get you cage pics tomorrow. All cleaned up now and definitely don't want to get into that greasy mess. :)


Tire Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive tire Synthetic rubber


Automotive tire Motor vehicle Tread Tire Coil


Vehicle Automotive tire Hood Automotive lighting Motor vehicle
 

·
Premium Member
2016 Polaris General Deluxe, 10% OEM
Joined
·
4,875 Posts
Yeah, us Westerners a tough...you play in the mud and we go high enough to make your ears pop and your nose bleed.!! And of course we like to play on the boulders you ain't even got!! LOL!!!

Please clean up that greasy mess. Better yet, cut the clamp on the boot off so you can slip the boot and CV Joint off the axle. Then you can share a pic of the axle splines.
Then dump out the CV Joint innards and share a pic or two of them.
These will tell us a lot! Got to be something as the root cause of three axles doing that.

Good luck, Polaris considers axles a "wear component" and doesn't cover them. That's why I went with Turner Cycles Nitro axles. They have one more ball in the CV Joint. The balls are, ahem,
bigger.
Pirate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yeah, us Westerners a tough...you play in the mud and we go high enough to make your ears pop and your nose bleed.!! And of course we like to play on the boulders you ain't even got!! LOL!!!

Please clean up that greasy mess. Better yet, cut the clamp on the boot off so you can slip the boot and CV Joint off the axle. Then you can share a pic of the axle splines.
Then dump out the CV Joint innards and share a pic or two of them.
These will tell us a lot! Got to be something as the root cause of three axles doing that.

Good luck, Polaris considers axles a "wear component" and doesn't cover them. That's why I went with Turner Cycles Nitro axles. They have one more ball in the CV Joint. The balls are, ahem,
bigger.
Pirate
LOL. These are SATV Rhino 2.0's. They have replaced 2 so far, but not going to ask them to replace a 3rd. So maybe not Turner's, but not stock junk either. :) Monday's suck so I will get pics tomorrow. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: deanrowski
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top