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2016 Polaris General Deluxe EPS
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was out for a quick ride over to check on my Dad today. On the way back my check engine light came on and the machine when into "limp mode"

I limped the couple of miles home and then shut it off and went for a ride across the yard. It was fine at first and then did the same thing again.

I am about to go and see what I can find out. After reading on here it looks like there is a known issue with cylinder misfire fault. From what I am reading it requires and ECU update or....

Some people seem to have tracked it down to a loose connection at the injector and the like. I am hoping I ccan find something simple that i can clear up on my own. Finger's crossed!!
 

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Has nothing to do with the belt or the injectors. it's all in the Misfire Detection programming Polaris gave us 2016 General owners in a recall in the Summer of 2017.

The only real cure I'm aware of. And fully recommend. Is to contact Gilomen Innovations and send your ECU to them for the programming fix.

When you send them your ECU, pay the extra bucks for their full program. The performance improvements are well worth it!

Pirate
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Buelligan,
The manual lists some causes for what I am experiencing, one of which is the worn belt or dirty clutches. I am going to look at all of those things today to see if I can figure it out.

Pirate,
The thought of having to spend around $600-900 CAD to do the ECU thing is a bitter pill, what's more frustrating to me would be to go without my machine for weeks while I send my ECU away for programming. It looks like there are some options for buying your own programmer and then having access to all kinds of custom upgrades/tunes. It might be the kind of thing I would look into in the off season (between snow clearing)

Thanks gentlemen for your input. I will report back on my findings.
G
 

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If you send your ECU to Gilomen you will have it back in 4 to 5 days. It's usually a one day turn-around from the day he gets it. How many miles do you have? How old is the belt? What kind of clutch maintenance have you done? How do you ride your machine? These are all the questions someone would need to know to help you with your problem. Being it's a 16 it is most likely the ECU program but the other areas are contributing factors.
 

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Its so false to say it has absolutely nothing to do with the belt... it absolutley can.. yes polaris made it oversensitive no argument there.. but lots of things can set it off.. dirty/worn clutches flat spots on belts. Even too aggressive of tires (ie. Bkt's).. so for people to instantly go to gilomen and your issue will be solved they can stuff a sock in it.. at least check out all the common stuff first before buying a tuned ecm driving it 50 miles and the belt blowing to shreds and then you find out you never needed a tune in the first place...it was the belt on the way out..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you send your ECU to Gilomen you will have it back in 4 to 5 days. It's usually a one day turn-around from the day he gets it. How many miles do you have? How old is the belt? What kind of clutch maintenance have you done? How do you ride your machine? These are all the questions someone would need to know to help you with your problem. Being it's a 16 it is most likely the ECU program but the other areas are contributing factors.
Since we have only had the machine for a year, I cannot speak for what maintenance was done and I am just learning about all of this as I go along. I appreciate everyone's help and I will answer the questions as best I can.We only have about 2800 miles on the machine and I have no idea how old the belt is. I have never had the clutch/belt cover off so I am going to do that today. I ride my machine like I stole it.. to me that is the intent. There is the day top day work and household chores and then there is ATV and Sled time.

What bothers me most about the ECU thing, is that after having been out on the trails a couple of dozen times with no issues, why would the ECU thing suddenly show up. Good to know that the ECU turn around time is not bad. although I am certain that because we are in Canada it will not be quite as simple and fast. I would for sure prefer a Canadian option to avoid the customs delays and additional costs. The programming units are not cheap but updates/tunes are free to download. There ought to be all kinds of people out there that can do the updates for you but I am not sure how to find a local guy.

Thanks
G
 

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Given the information you have provided, you definitely need to start with the clutches. After you pull the clutch cover, blow all the dust out. Check your secondary and see if you have square pucks or round rollers. The square pucks that Polaris puts in the secondary starts damaging the clutch from day one. Go to the Hunterworks web site and start watching Todds videos. You will want one of his belts and you can pick up the round rollers at the same time. If you still have the problem, you are going to need the ecu tune. There may be others out there that can do the job but none of them are as good as Gilomen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Given the information you have provided, you definitely need to start with the clutches. After you pull the clutch cover, blow all the dust out. Check your secondary and see if you have square pucks or round rollers. The square pucks that Polaris puts in the secondary starts damaging the clutch from day one. Go to the Hunterworks web site and start watching Todds videos. You will want one of his belts and you can pick up the round rollers at the same time. If you still have the problem, you are going to need the ecu tune. There may be others out there that can do the job but none of them are as good as Gilomen.
Starky,

For sure I am going to follow your direction and take a look at the belt and clutches. I have some family support issues to deal with this morning but I still hope to get to this later on today.

Thanks
G
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Given the information you have provided, you definitely need to start with the clutches. After you pull the clutch cover, blow all the dust out. Check your secondary and see if you have square pucks or round rollers. The square pucks that Polaris puts in the secondary starts damaging the clutch from day one. Go to the Hunterworks web site and start watching Todds videos. You will want one of his belts and you can pick up the round rollers at the same time. If you still have the problem, you are going to need the ecu tune. There may be others out there that can do the job but none of them are as good as Gilomen.
Starky,
Ok, I pulled the clutch cover and while the inside of the belt looks fine to me the outside of the belt is looking a little rough. There is about a 6-8" section that no longer has the grooves. It's just flat and almost a little frayed. As for the clutches, you will need to bare with me on those. I do not yet have a lot of experience with these. From maintaining my older sleds I learned that one needs some special tools to work with the clutches. Do I have to take the clutch apart to see what you are describing (square pucks vs round rollers)? Do I have to remove the clutch? It looks like some of the disassembly of the driven clutch can be done with regular tools. Can I blow all the dust out and give it decent cleaning without taking it apart? I seem to recall that one of the clutches comes off easy while the other one requires a special puller. Sorry for being such a newbie and asking so many questions. I am going to look at my service manual and see what I am able to do with standard tools.

Stay tuned!!
Thanks
G
 

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Your belt it shot. Time for a new one. I had a belt delaminate like that in my 18G2. I got the check engine light and limp mode. Swapped the belt on the side of the trail. No more issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Buelligan,

That is some very encouraging news. I was going to replace the belt first and take it for a ride and see if that was it. While I have the cover off I am going to blow all te dust our of the clutches and try to do a visual without tearing everything apart. I am all in for doing my own clutch work but I will need to buy the puller and spider wrench and.... all the other bits and pieces.

I am still interested in the ECU upgrades but would like to have the flexibility of doing that myself as well. Or to find a local guy that has the programmer and all of the upgrades are available for download so...

Does anyone on the forums do their own ECU programming??

Thanks
G
 

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I plan on going with Aftermarket Assassin's tuner and tunes. I don't want to send my ECU out. I have experience with the power vision tuner through my Harley. I like the flexibility. If I add or change anything later, I can get a new tune. Plus if I turbo my 20xp4, I'll already have the tuner.
 

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You are on the right track. I agree...your belt is shot. For sure, it is not always the ECM malfunctioning when it goes into limp mode. You can do a visual on the pucks without disassembling anything further. Blow out the clutches; then look at the two plastic pucks on the secondary clutch. If stock they will be square; if you're lucky they will have already been replaced with round ones. If they are not round you should replace them while you're in there. It's a very easy task to do.
 

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When you put on the new drive belt have the lettering facing you, so that you can read it. Then if and when you ever have to take it off, put it on the same way and it is easy to remember this way. You don't want to reverse your belt. Keep it turning the same direction all the time.
Hope this makes sense.
 
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Also blow the clutches out real good. Take your time to do a good job.
Hard telling when the last time they were ever blown out.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You are on the right track. I agree...your belt is shot. For sure, it is not always the ECM malfunctioning when it goes into limp mode. You can do a visual on the pucks without disassembling anything further. Blow out the clutches; then look at the two plastic pucks on the secondary clutch. If stock they will be square; if you're lucky they will have already been replaced with round ones. If they are not round you should replace them while you're in there. It's a very easy task to do.
So I changed the belt.. but sadly that not it. I was originally elated that is was that. I went for a rip and it was fine. 200 I tried to be less aggressive so as to try to break in the new belt. But alas I go a couple of miles and the check engine light came on again and it went into limp mode. What I think I have learned is it was not the belt and that what ever it is does not occur until the machine is up to that 200 degrees that the fan starts at. So it appears to be temperature related. I will
keep trying... will pull p[lugs tomorrow and go down the list of other things that the manual suggest can cause this.

Thanks again for trying to assist. I said to Cathy (wife) today. Having the forum to reach out to and to provide advice and such.. it's like having a bunch of guys at your shoulder to provide some support and ideas. It's nice feeling

So thanks, to all of you
G
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You are on the right track. I agree...your belt is shot. For sure, it is not always the ECM malfunctioning when it goes into limp mode. You can do a visual on the pucks without disassembling anything further. Blow out the clutches; then look at the two plastic pucks on the secondary clutch. If stock they will be square; if you're lucky they will have already been replaced with round ones. If they are not round you should replace them while you're in there. It's a very easy task to do.
Oh and yes the exposed pieces on the secondary clutch are rectangular pieces of plastic... I think
 

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Its so false to say it has absolutely nothing to do with the belt... it absolutley can.. yes polaris made it oversensitive no argument there.. but lots of things can set it off.. dirty/worn clutches flat spots on belts. Even too aggressive of tires (ie. Bkt's).. so for people to instantly go to gilomen and your issue will be solved they can stuff a sock in it.. at least check out all the common stuff first before buying a tuned ecm driving it 50 miles and the belt blowing to shreds and then you find out you never needed a tune in the first place...it was the belt on the way out..
You know. My Misfire Detection problems began in January 2018. We were in Arizona for a month. Polaris dealer did the recall on the Steering Column fastener and reprogrammed the ECU. I got my DuraClutch kit in November and installed it. Not much riding until we got to AZ. We were 8 miles from camp when the Check Engine Light came on and the machine went into limp mode. Did it eight times that day. Next morning I called DuraClutch. Over the next three weeks they sent me three Primary Clutches and three new belts. I did lots of testing for them. They had heard about belt slip and perhaps a momentary loss of synchronization between the CPS and the ECU. All to no avail. Different weights, different springs...all set up by DuraClutch and tested by me. Changed belts as requested. Nope, still happened numerous times a day.
Mitchell Peterson, owner of DuraClutch told me this thoughts and that he had heard about work done by Terry Gilomen.
Talked with Terry Gilomen. Bought a new, fully programmed, ECU from him.
Installed it...and have never, ever, had a Misfire Detection pop up again.

So I'm unable to agree with belt issues or anything else, other than the over sensitive Misfire Detection in the Polaris ECU program. Every Polaris General ECU since the reprogramming, has the potential for the issue.

No one, even Terry, can tell you why it pops up and what makes it pop up. There are more theories out there than you can count. But none can be definitely proven to be the root cause. It just happens. It might be that one cylinder misfires one time...and boom, you're in limp mode. Could that be a spark plug that didn't fire? Or an injector burp that didn't inject enough fuel into the cylinder to fire? Your guess is as good as mine.

But I know the only real fix is an ECU that de-sensitizes the Misfire Detection programming. And the only person doing that is Gilomen Innovation.

Pirate
 

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You know. My Misfire Detection problems began in January 2018. We were in Arizona for a month. Polaris dealer did the recall on the Steering Column fastener and reprogrammed the ECU. I got my DuraClutch kit in November and installed it. Not much riding until we got to AZ. We were 8 miles from camp when the Check Engine Light came on and the machine went into limp mode. Did it eight times that day. Next morning I called DuraClutch. Over the next three weeks they sent me three Primary Clutches and three new belts. I did lots of testing for them. They had heard about belt slip and perhaps a momentary loss of synchronization between the CPS and the ECU. All to no avail. Different weights, different springs...all set up by DuraClutch and tested by me. Changed belts as requested. Nope, still happened numerous times a day.
Mitchell Peterson, owner of DuraClutch told me this thoughts and that he had heard about work done by Terry Gilomen.
Talked with Terry Gilomen. Bought a new, fully programmed, ECU from him.
Installed it...and have never, ever, had a Misfire Detection pop up again.

So I'm unable to agree with belt issues or anything else, other than the over sensitive Misfire Detection in the Polaris ECU program. Every Polaris General ECU since the reprogramming, has the potential for the issue.

No one, even Terry, can tell you why it pops up and what makes it pop up. There are more theories out there than you can count. But none can be definitely proven to be the root cause. It just happens. It might be that one cylinder misfires one time...and boom, you're in limp mode. Could that be a spark plug that didn't fire? Or an injector burp that didn't inject enough fuel into the cylinder to fire? Your guess is as good as mine.

But I know the only real fix is an ECU that de-sensitizes the Misfire Detection programming. And the only person doing that is Gilomen Innovation.

Pirate
Aftermarket Assassins offers the misfire desensitize in their tune. Giloman is not the only one doing it. My 18 had a bad belt cause the misfire detection. The only other time I had it happen was after installing my duraclutch. It did it twice while I was on vacation in Michigan last year. Never did it again. A belt can cause it. When troubleshooting anything you start at the basics.... use the K.I.S.S. principle. If he changed his belt and it was fixed, that's a lot cheaper than the tune.
 
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